Creepy's next stage build

I've been quiet lately.  Broke.  Depressed.  Naked and heavily using drugs.  Just kidding about some of that.

I've thought long and hard about this.  I remembered my purpose for this LJ when I bought it was to build something highway and trail friendly.  (I've been beating on it too hard lately. )  Its ordinary for a build out to include an increase in tire size.  Well, that doesn't fit with my short term goals.   For now, I want to keep these rubi axles in service.  Which means I am staying with 35"s for now as well.

I am refining my plans for this jeep now.

* Rear triangulation: I keep tearing the rear trackbar mounts off of the axle.
* Rockkrawler Long Arm kit: right mix of features; maturity of design; reputation; fair price; my short arm kit needs every bushing replaced.
* Bilstein 5100s - have the rancho 9000s now but they are beat to hell.
* MCE Fenders
* Currie Currect-Lync.  By far the best steering upgrade for the money for a jeep my size.  I've run this setup before.  I made a mistake of trying the Rugged Ridge tie rod kit and you get what you pay for.
* 4 more BFG MT KM2s.  I still love these tires.
* Currie Antirock for the front will be needed before long
* Rear exhaust: my plan is to install the long arm kit in my driveway with friends looking on as I burn myself and set myself on fire with the welder, cutting appendages with the murderous grinder, bleeding and using all of my insurance money.  When all the new parts are on, if there is room to put a muffler back on, cool.  Otherwise, It might be a Cherry Bomb strung under there with bailing wire until I can figger it out.  Otherwise, I really like the flowmaster it has now.

Jason Tout says I've got to go CV shaft on the rear as well.

I was considering going the highline route and going down to 2" lift, with a rear triangulate kit, and tummy tuck, and all kinds of exotic parts to complete the transition.  Then I realized that I drag my skid plate now, so this would be a zero sum game.

Its definitely going to be the Rockkrawler Long arm kit.  I have 4.5" now and rub a little on the back. Actually, my 4.5" is prolly more like 3.7925621" or something by now.  So, trying to decided between 5.5" or 3.5" with 1" coil spacers.  I know the current rage is to keep a low COG.  I understand this completely of course, but I am already at 4.5" and its real stable.  Maybe its the longer wheelbase.  I don't want to cut the tub.  The fenders sure, they're already hacked up.

Finally, I am thinking about removing my flares front and rear and replacing them with MCE fenders in the front and regular wrangler flares in the back.  The regular wrangler flares are narrower, and I think they would look nicer repainted to match the MCE fenders.  Only thing is, I want to run this on the street.  Not sure about no front flare, essentially, on the street.  BUT, I love the look of them, and it makes sense to have fenders that are pliable when you do what we do with these things.

When I bought this LJ four years ago, I had a perfectly good TJ I'd put a lot of work into.  At the time my logic was, I really wanted an LJ Rubicon to build up.  So, I sold my beloved TJ and bought an LJ Rubicon (used).  To pay for this, It's been a double duty rig for me: Work and Play.  Otherwise, I could not justify such a luxury.

At this point, I am wanting to get another three years out of it, maybe more, as a double duty rig.  Its still under 100K miles and I won't feel right retiring it to trail duties under 140K.  At that point in time, its 14 bolt rear and 1 ton something or other front and at least 38s and probably highline and all that.

Whadyall think?


Wow, that was a lot to say.

Paint it pink and call it done .

Seriously your plan sounds good and well thought out. If you drag your skid you might wanna look into trying to flat skid it.

Yes.
 
The RK LA Kit replaces the factory shovel with a flat skid.  Yay!.   While it does add clearance over factory, I do believe there are ways to get more clearance.  I "THINK" most tummy tucks require Motor Mount and Body Lift kits be installed to lift the components.  I've managed not to put a BL on this and would like to continue to not do that for now.
 
Maybe later?  Who knows.  I did have a BL/MML with my last Jeep for a stretch of time and they worked as intended.

try going to ironrockoffroad.com, they probabally have most of what you want at a reasonable price. i have used these parts and found them to be reliable and cost effective.

Thank you.  Although, I am pretty certain, about 100%, that I will be buying it from Jason Tout at Four Wheel Parts.  If for no other reason, because I have abused that poor guy with questions forever and have yet to purchase that kit.
 
Sorry Jason...  Getting close...   

Larger tires will lift every component of the Jeep while keeping stock suspension geometry. the high line route is usually to keep it low and run bigger tires. do like tyler said and fab a belly skid i have the 33 eng one you could fab somthing up similiar or heres one too.  http://www.jrfarrar.com/jeep/tj/crossmember/
  

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Paul, I might do that at some point.

Highline is something I am entertaining, but not for first stage.

The primary reason for me to keep 35"s is because I am already geared for them and these D30ish housings, knuckles, and bearings and ball joints just aren't worth a lot more than that size tire for longevity.  Second, I want to keep fuel economy as decent as I can.  I even considered going down to 33s.

I don't want bigger tires right now.  They make no sense for a Jeep that is getting offroad twice a year right now.

I even looked to see if there were a narrower 35" tire.  Fuel economy.  Yes, I know it detracts from offroad ability perhaps but this thing for the past 4 years and next 3 I plan to keep as a road-going jeep with that as a primary focus for every component I select.
 
As far as highline goes, I agree that low COG is great.  But, bang for the buck I am getting a lot more out of this suspension kit in terms of ride quality, offroad capability (ceasing to rip my rear track bar out) than I would just going highline by itself.
 
I have to replace these suspension components.  They were **** from the beginning and now they are worn out ****.
 
I am interested in size and weight, hence my desire to run MCE fenders instead of big steel corners and tube fenders, if I can help it.
 
Eventually, if this thing does grow again, it will not be on these axles. But this suspension kit will still be relevant and useful at that point in time.
 
 

Here is a wish list item for a more economical offroad tire:
 
I want a BFG MT KM2 tire in a 17 or 18" steel wheel and an overall profile (metric or standard) amounting to from 35.6 to 36.5 inches
 
Something like a 35 or 36x11.50x17
 
Tall, economical on the street if geared correctly, and less weight in rubber to sling around and keep balanced (hopefully).
 
 
 
 

And I thought my list was long. Some good solid things in there. I'm stuck between the same long arm kit and the one from Clayton offroad. I too have 35in KM2's and love them. Would only go bigger 37in max when I get RCV shafts. I'm gonna keep my stock 30 and 44.
 
 You do sounds a bit "sad" so when you feel like it's getting to hard just call:
Adult Help Line
(972) 233-2233

 
 

I have considered the Clayton kit as well.  I have heard good things about it.

Having slept on your comments.   I am considering a modified path now and would still like all of your feedback:

I've been reading and reading and reading.  I tried to forget everything I thought I knew (which isn't enough) about this stuff and look at it fresh.

Paul, you made me consider a few things:  I've been enjoying this hobby in two different TJs for the past ten years and in that time have never had a long arm kit.   My goals for this jeep don't include building an articulation monster.  Traction and gearing are the ****. I get bored with some of the trails we run.

Weighing cost/goals I realized that keeping it short arm and adding a body lift and motor mount lift is maybe a better option.  I could remove my spring spacers and reduce coil lift by 1".

I do not envision building bigger than 35s on this rig for three of four years at least, and might just keep it as a highway rig permanently.   Honestly, I love having something to cruise around town in.

So, this led me to reprioritize my list:

1) Quality:  Ride quality must improve.  Quality of the components in use is of high priority.
2) Rear track bar : I hate it.   I would like to triangulate the rear.  I am not certain what impact this would have on steering effect as opposed to a simpler short trailing arm design retaining the track bar?  I still have lots of question about the use of a single triangulated 4 link short arm setup and its handling characteristics.  As opposed to dual triangulated.  Maybe its not needed with that little lift?   The bigger question is why I consistently have trouble tearing up my rear trackbar at the mount or even snapping it?  I presume its just not setup right.  There are two makers of short arm triangulate kits (that I could find): Rockkrawler and Full Traction.  After having read reviews about Full Traction, I am not certain about the longevity/quality.  Reading more about Rockkrawler I realized that their flex joints are poly.  I hate poly joints after these Rough Country **** bushings I am running now.  Granted, I am certain the RK bushings are of much higher quality than the RC bushings.  Which leaves a gaping hole in my solution, because I am convinced that ...
3) Control arms should have good quality high misalignment (johnny joint/krawler joint/etc) at one end, with a HIGH QUALITY RUBBER bushing at the other.  This strongly points to a set of Clayton adjustable short control arms.  Any experience out there with other short arms?
4) Reduce current amount of spring lift by 1".  This will allow me to keep current Rubicon Express 3.5" springs for a little while.  They are definitely worn in to below the height they were when I got them.  Retain my current driveshaft.  Retain my steering geometry (I will still get the Currie steering though).   Not have to add extended brake lines.
5) Reinforce factory brackets on axles.  I've already begun this.  When I tear it down for the suspension build here I will complete that process.

Other goals, which do not need to be addressed with the suspension upgrade include:

6) Belly clearance.  I am finally listening to you on this Paul.  I am now willing to install up to 1" body lift and mml to accomplish it, and will even modify my floor pan with a hammer If I must.  I think I will get the BL and MML done now, then see what I have to work with in terms of the clearances for second stage...  I even considered building a pan.  I know where to get some 3/16 plate cheap.

7) Truss the rear axle.  Ideally this could be accomplished in sync with a rear triangulation kit if I go that route.  If I did, I really like the trusses that are made by TNT for their dual triangulated LA kit.  Truss  and/or tube the front axle.  I don't want to spend too much more dough on my axles.  So I may not truss, or if I do, it might be of my own manufacture...  I would rather save up for some axles that include stronger ball joint or king pin design and have stronger knuckles, tubes, and shafts to begin with.

Open questions I have for myself and anyone who might know include:
1) Will I retain my drop pitman arm after removing my coil spacer?  I don't "think" i will want or need to.  The geometry is otherwise perfect with the trackbar.
 
Sorry for the long brain dump.  This is why it takes me FOREVER to make a decision.   Any feedback is good.

Do you like my numbering system? 

Another thing I "think" i understand:
 
If I only have about 3" of coil lift on an LJ and use my factory (NON CV) driveshaft, I will want to orient the rear axle pinion yoke perpendicular to the transfer case yoke, so that both u-joints experience the same range of travel.
 
What I am not sure about is, if adding a Motor Mount lift, I will be altering the orientation of the tcase yoke slightly downwards towards the rear axle, then the rear axle should also be positioned with the yoke slightly pitched upward to the same angle. Does that sound correct as well?
 
Is that setup appropriate for a lifted jeep suspension (3")?  As a four link + panhard suspension cycles downwards, doesn't the angles get preserved?
 
When would I know that i NEED a double cardan rear shaft?  IE:  What suspension type/size normally makes YOU decide its appropriate or not?
 
There just seems to be a lot of gray area here.  I am not sure whose opinion to trust.  I am wanting to better understand the formula for arriving to that conclusion?
 
 

Finally, to add to the last question about shafts and pinion yoke orientation:
 
I "think" when I finally do tuck the transfer case up higher, I "think" I will need to go to a double cv rear shaft because of distance to the rear axle and the angle getting more severe.
 
If that is the case?  I am wondering about the selection of a short arm kit for what I think will require pitching the rear yoke directly towards the transfer case yoke at that point in time?  IE:  I wonder if their is sufficient adjustability in the Clayton short arms to pull that off?

1. Ride Quality - go long arm.

Even at 2.5 to 3.0 inches?

3 - 3.5 yes - ride will be better.