BMRA's Problems from the past

This is addressed to any BMRA BOARD MEMBER who may care to reply. My reasons for dropping membership and not wheeling BMRA are simple: (1) As it was when BMRA first opened, dirt bikes and ATV's once again ran amock over the property with no regards as to safety and consideration of otehr users. Examples are cutting dougnutsd in front of the food vendoer trailer, excessive speed on access road and camp areas, and small children not inder any supervision what so ever. (Example was a 10-12 year old that nearly became a hood ornament for my Jeep when I was at a full stop on the side of the upper access road!)   Clyde and Linda finally got this under sontrol, and had semed to establish a working repore between use groups, which soon dribbled away after they *retired*. (2) The RV spots up by the office turned into tailgate party zones for the same two use groups. Parking their trailers there with NO REGARD for folks who actually wanted to use those sites as they were intended. And again, BMRA managment made NO efforts to resolve or (to my knowledge) even address the problem. While 4x4 trails are scarse as hen's teeth in Texas, I can't suppoert an organization that caters to only certain factions of it's membership. Two of which have MANY, MANY, MANY, OTHER PLACES TO RIDE in our state. No sports fans, these ARE NOT ISSUES, they are PROBLEMS! If these have been resolved, the please let me know. I have written BMRA and made posts in the past about this with NO RESPONSE. So....with 2006, I will continue to support Jeep Jamboree USA, and the Moab area for my wheeling needs. The cost and drive are well worth the quality of wheeling. At least I don't leave the trails angry at irresponsible idiots!

Chris !! takig anything to BMRA will be nothing short of throwing it in another trash container. this is a provblem that needs to go to TMTC. BMRA has only one governing body and we all know who that is. so you know nothing will get done by going to BMRA.

Hey Dennis,   When I was out there two weekends ago, I hardly saw any ATVs or dirtbikes.  Don't know if it was just coincidence, though.  Also, I called **** Stuart, the TMTC Secretary, one time about the Ozona proposal and found him to be a friendly and approachable person willing to listen.  I found his phone number on the TMTC website - www.texasmotorizedtrails.com.  You may have already spoken to someone at TMTC, but just in case you haven't yet, I thought I'd throw his name out for ya.

If I may make a suggestion in a constructive way...   The letter is written in a short, but sweet fashion. That is great. The last paragraph came across to me as this: It tends to stray and become a little inflamatory with the comments about sports fans and leaving the trails mad at idiots. Is there another way to say the same thing, just with other, less "angry" words and phrases and still keep your passion about wheeling in there? To me, little comments like that come across as bristling with anger(all be it justified) and a lack of cooperation to work with the powers that be about the matter at hand...  Maybe this as just a little brain storm off the top of my head.   "I enjoy wheeling and am willing to travel to such places and events such as the Jeep Jamboree and Moab. I have made repeated attempts to contact BMRA about this issue and feel it has fallen upon deaf ears. There are a few bad apples that ruining this for all of us. I usually wind up leaving frustrated after seeing some of the poor behavior and general disregard that these folks have for the well being of those around them. Thanks for your consideration of this matter."   or something along those lines? I dunno...

Clem the Great Commuicator, I am impressed.

take this to the tmtc people. there is a problem out at bmra that they are aware of it.  its not my place to go in to any detail of the things that are going on that is for the bmra staff. but just trust me contanct the ohv rep directly.  stacy newmanstacy@southernhighrollers.com or contact leslie ramerez lrjdl2004@yahoo.com. state spacificly that you think there is a problem with bmra managment and what needs to be done. they will listen. i have already spoken to them about other issues and they were very helpfull.

In order of appearance: Thanks for the link Ed. I have talked with other BOD members there in the past. Maybe a new set of ears needs to be bent a little ! Well Clem, you know I'm far from the politically correct-sunshine pump mentality which I so very much despise and believe is the downfall of society. But you have a point, one in which if I were to write a letter to TMTC, I would knock the edge off things a bit. But like doing body work on an old klunker, sometimes you have to use a courser grit abrasive to get it's attention! I have sat down in the past with TMTC BOD memebrs from various use groups discussing the potential hazards of mixed use trail systems, both motorized and non-motorized. All have serious shortcomings that can only be cured through common sense and mutual respect by ALL persons involved. And those two items are a scarse commodity in today's society. I've tried the buffered version several times with NO RESULTS. That's why I quit going there and dropped my membership. And not aimed at any one individual: When any one single use group feels it has more rights to a trail than any other, NOBODY wins, and EVERYONE suffers in some form. Be it agrivation, injury, or death. BMRA was becoming a good place for various off road groups to learn multui use trail ettiquite. Maybe if more people got truly angry and let it show, instead of worrying about all this political correctness nonsense, then we might get somebody's attention. The numbers DO NOT LIE. Dirt bikes and ATV's have a huge number of places to ride in Texas, 4x4's only a handful at best. TMTC board members are supposed to be a balanced mix from each group so as to avoid any predjudice. But who are the most active when it comes to off roading? Those from the dirt bike community! Why do anti's pick on 4x4's? Because we're known as the loosest knit group (and in fact, still are), and seen by the general public as a bunch of drunken derilects bent on ripping the woods to shreds faster than urban sprawl ever dreamed of!  Right now, TMTC has bigger fish to fry. So maybe it's bad timing on my part. Or maybe a pipe dream that they might take such into consideration with a new park. I do know the suggestion of a 4x4 only park sank like a submarine with screen doors when there were first talks of a second property. I have said many times slow and quiet doesn't mix well with loud and fast. But then if we all ran pipes as loud as dirt bikes, the tree huggers would be screaming we're purposely driving the animals from their habitat. Trust me, they slam dirt bikers with that enough as it is.

ORIGINAL: texasawnutts take this to the tmtc people. there is a problem out at bmra that they are aware of it.  its not my place to go in to any detail of the things that are going on that is for the bmra staff.

So if there really is a problem, what possible justification do you have for not mentioning it here so others can be aware of it, and help take action? After all, wasn't that THE reason for this section of the forums? And if it's so top secret, why did you bother bringing it up in the first place? Or for that matter, if you're worried about mentioning here, you could e-mail me instead and we can discuss it. But....the old saying about strenth in numbers holds true in such organizations as TMTC. So needless to say, I would consider it valuable information to share with the entire club membership. If I alone complain, little or nothing (which has been the results so far) will happen. If the entire club complains as a group, then results are much more likely.

ORIGINAL: 95yj In order of appearance: Thanks for the link Ed. I have talked with other BOD members there in the past. Maybe a new set of ears needs to be bent a little ! Well Clem, you know I'm far from the politically correct-sunshine pump mentality which I so very much despise and believe is the downfall of society. But you have a point, one in which if I were to write a letter to TMTC, I would knock the edge off things a bit. But like doing body work on an old klunker, sometimes you have to use a courser grit abrasive to get it's attention! I have sat down in the past with TMTC BOD memebrs from various use groups discussing the potential hazards of mixed use trail systems, both motorized and non-motorized. All have serious shortcomings that can only be cured through common sense and mutual respect by ALL persons involved. And those two items are a scarse commodity in today's society. I've tried the buffered version several times with NO RESULTS. That's why I quit going there and dropped my membership. And not aimed at any one individual: When any one single use group feels it has more rights to a trail than any other, NOBODY wins, and EVERYONE suffers in some form. Be it agrivation, injury, or death. BMRA was becoming a good place for various off road groups to learn multui use trail ettiquite. Maybe if more people got truly angry and let it show, instead of worrying about all this political correctness nonsense, then we might get somebody's attention. The numbers DO NOT LIE. Dirt bikes and ATV's have a huge number of places to ride in Texas, 4x4's only a handful at best. TMTC board members are supposed to be a balanced mix from each group so as to avoid any predjudice. But who are the most active when it comes to off roading? Those from the dirt bike community! Why do anti's pick on 4x4's? Because we're known as the loosest knit group (and in fact, still are), and seen by the general public as a bunch of drunken derilects bent on ripping the woods to shreds faster than urban sprawl ever dreamed of!  Right now, TMTC has bigger fish to fry. So maybe it's bad timing on my part. Or maybe a pipe dream that they might take such into consideration with a new park. I do know the suggestion of a 4x4 only park sank like a submarine with screen doors when there were first talks of a second property. I have said many times slow and quiet doesn't mix well with loud and fast. But then if we all ran pipes as loud as dirt bikes, the tree huggers would be screaming we're purposely driving the animals from their habitat. Trust me, they slam dirt bikers with that enough as it is.

FYI: OHV's and Buggy's have over 60% of the parks attendance,ATV's,Motorcycle's and horses fill the rest.

FYI: OHV's and Buggy's have over 60% of the parks attendance,ATV's,Motorcycle's and horses fill the rest. 60% OHV and 40% other should put a bit more weight toour side of the problems. I have made this statement before "There is going to be a fatality sooner or later because a fast moving bike or 4 wheeler going down a hill meets a slow moving OHV comming up". There is also a strong possibility that a child will end up under one of our rigs because he shot out in front of someone on the main road. These are worst case statments but they are likley to happen if things don't change at BMRA. I miss going to BMRA and wheeling with everyone out there but I will not be the one to injure a child even if it's not my fault so I have not renewed my membership.

BMRA want's larger vehicles to yield to smaller vehicles,that is the problem that I see with it. On the road and on water it's the other way around. As for kids I think that is the parents responsibilty and not the parks.

ORIGINAL: crazydave Clem the Great Commuicator, I am impressed.

    Thank you.

Dennis, the old cluncker route works good. I have had a mixed track record with it. I have a feeling that the political level of personel you are hoping to reach will definately not respond as well to the ol' beater routine. You will have to handle them accordingly... Stroke the ego a bit and give them what you want them to see/hear/read. It's like the old spoonful of sugar helps the medicine go down bit. With Mike's (c-4) comment on the possibility of a fatality occuring, that might could be mentioned in a semi-civilized fashion. It seems that there is a possibility of some sort of possible knee jerk reaction, especially if it is elevated to the appropriate level. It is up to you to guage the appropriate level that this should be elevated to. Which leads to my next though...  How far up the food chain have you taken this complaint? Maybe this... I am willing to travel to other events and locations as far away as Moab, but prefer to wheel in the great state of Texas. I have expressed these concernes to the local staff out at BMRA and feel it has fallen upon deaf ears. I have observed a general lack of responsibility on the part of a growing majority of ATV and motorcycle riders at BMRA. Some of the activities that have been observed have been flat out dangerous, if not deadly. I am concerned that the lack of attention to this issue could result in one of the ATV or motorcycle crowd plastered across the hood of another offroad vehicle. (or even under in some circumstances) TMTC does NOT need that kind of press especially with the upcoming purchase of the property at Ozona. We both know that a lot of the people that are fighting hard against responsible wheeling would have a field day with an unfortunate accident such as this. This would definately prove to be a hindurance to all of the good things that TMTC has fought long and hard to bring about. Thank you for your consideration of this matter. ???  Or whatever the appropriate stage is in the acquisition of the property at Ozona.     I agree that if the whole group were to speak as one voice with a large enough group behind it, that would definately get some attention. Maybe the powers that be around here can discuss a possible stance on this and act accordingly as they see fit? I dunno... I ain't local no more. I would hate to see something like BMRA go by the waysidefor everyone there...

ORIGINAL: texasfrog BMRA want's larger vehicles to yield to smaller vehicles,that is the problem that I see with it. On the road and on water it's the other way around. As for kids I think that is the parents responsibilty and not the parks.

I  also believe that children are the responsiblity of the parents but the children are not being supervised properly. The end result will ultimately be a child on a motorcycle running in front of a rig and getting hit.

Dennis, did you file an incident report in the office? conflicts and concerns should be documented. The Board of Directors do not frequent forums...I accidently stumbled upon this post. write letters to the editor of the newsletter where all members can see your concerns. single use parks are in the plans...but not for the first few....that was a decision made by a membership vote.  

  instead of worrying about all this political correctness nonsense

  the fact is at this point in time we create multiuse parks or none at all ..I don't know how politically correct that is or not...but that's how it is if we buy with grant money...and I don't have any other money available to buy land.   at the point in time when TMTC is helping the Forest Service create their OHV areas...the story will be diferent....some of the SE Tx forests will be dirtbike and atv only....that would probably be the time I would be out looking for the perfect wheeling only spot for us to buy, if I was you.

 Thanks for jumping in Laura. I never filed a report about the kid I mentioned, mostly because I think he very well may have wet his pants. That alone should have woke him up a bit. Never did spot the parents. But on subsequent visits, the problem worsened. And with our lovely sue-happy society, I will not risk some yahoo sueing me for all I have simply because they failed to supervise and educate their children. One area local to me was *officially* closed for the exact type of accident I'm talking about. A motorcyclist (youth) became a hood ornament. No one person was really at fault, it was a bad situation, and fate came calling. Or simply put, and accident waiting to happen.   I have asked before about the RV spots, and made past posts here inquiring to their status. I'm still waiting for an answer. It's a very simple matter, and it puzzles me as to why nobody will address it. Either they are (1) Open, and TMTC has failed to enforce proper use of them,(2) First come, first served, regardless of intended use, or (3) Closed to RV use.   When this forum was set up, we had a TMTC board member that claimed they would check it regularly to help with questions and concerns. Not sure who that was, or where they went.   Mark, percentile of vehicle types means little to me when it comes to safety problems. I beleive I made mention of respect and responsibilities earlier on in this thread. It has nothing to do with who has the most of what in the park. And...you bet parents SHOULD BE RESPONSIBLE for their children. Again, lack of enforcement. Do we need a BMRA 101 class for new memebrs to show and explain what is expected of them? Maybe so. Sure couldn't hurt! Education is probably the one best thing we can add to our sport. But it seems people don't want to get involved, or simply (as many of us) just don't have the time to dedicate to it. I know FWD-FWD had their MORE Program, which was a great start. Participation is the next obstacle to overcome when it comes to such programs.

Precipitation, that's the easy part to over come, just have an add on sticker to the membership card, one for each member of the family, no sticker, can't come in the park. The hard part will be to get you out there to teach this class each weekend. But just like last year, on this subject, I'm still a member, will remain a member, will continue to go. I don't think Clayton has many ATV's, you guys may want to try that area. Some very hard trails up there I hear.

If no one tells us...how do we know that a problem exists. Maybe we need a class beyond the scope of each individual user group...a class that does show all of us the best way to deal with each other. I'll work on that for you.   as far as the rv sites by the office. in the beginning Jerry Paul Higgins build those sites in return he could have a place to park his RV with electric and water. At that time he was loaning us use of his buldozer and he would pay his operator to run it...or do it himself. Now, I don't think they can be used by  the general membership....only special folks ....and I don't even know what constitutes special. You think it's puzzling to you....I've been told ....all in one days time...to take down the reserved signs, put up the reserved signs, to put out of order signs up....sometimes life is just confusing.   Of course the new park's trail system will be planned much different We already had much of the trail structure established prior to TMTC buying BMRA. the new place has no trails on it...just a main road used by the gas trucks.   And since I'm on that parks planning committe, I can use your concerns when developing the trail system.    

Thanks again Laura! You're the first person to address the RV sites in any fashion. At least now I know that possibly nobody knows what their fate is. I have used those sites back when Clyde ran the park. They charged a bit more than most RV sites in camp grounds, but it was worth the extra cost to have a quiet place at night with room for my trailer. I'd like to suggest that TMTC open them up for RV use by reservation only. ( I think there were 4-5 sites?) I know Clyde was charging $22 a night for the electric and water hook up. I'd certainly be game for it!   As far as classes go, I think you're headed in the right direction. From what I have learned from folks who ride dirt bikes and ATV's, is that they get along fine on their own trails/parks. Same with 4x4's. Even outside of motorized sports, mixed use or shared trail systems tend to have problems when people fail to use common sense and good judgement. Which, as we know, happens all too often. An orientation class maybe? My biggest concern is that TMTC doesn't have the same thing happen that I mentioned earlier with a rider becoming a hood ornament. Bad news for the sport, and certainly bad news for TMTC.   For the new park, maybe have it sectioned for each group? I would bet people from all use groups would be for having their own section to ride/wheel in. Hey...there's even the chance you might see me on two wheels if I get the trials bike up and running this summer. If you want to discuss things further off the forums, I'd  be glad to. That way we don't eat up bandwidth here. And can always post the results later for the club to read.  

Hi Gordon! Been to Clayton a few times. It can be a rough place to wheel. Lots of rocks and trees to help modify the body of your rig. But still fun. There's less radical stuff there too, and even trails I won't run! The Wheelin' Ranch has undergone some serious changes from Mother Nature my last trip up there. Trails I walked up on 33's had become a serious challenge for 35's. C4 had a couple of *pucker factor* moments too!